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Threads 541 to 570

sing along with Stephen
Posted by Stephen Bauer on 28-Apr-2003 17:03:12 (#3960)

sing along with me.
Zo-Zah One-Zah Two-Zah Three-Zah Four-???

If you said Four-Zah you got it right
The Zah in the second syllable has a Z sound for Zero. Zero Aces played

next chorus
N-2-Zah N-3-Zah ?-4-Zah

If you Said N you got that rignt also. you are counting backward with
Zero Aces played. N indicates a negative count

Now lets pick up the tempo a bit.
Zo-Zah One-Zah One-AaaH Two-AaaH
Aces are given the letters of the alphabet so that I don't confuse them with any number I have. Letters are always Aces played. the next ace played will be labeled Bee. Like N-1-Aaah Zo-Aaah One-Aaah One-Bee. Run the names together into words. N1A (enoneah) (Zoah). Soon the names becme states in your mind that have atributes of doubling at different counts and surrendering at others.

I know it seems difficult but the difficulty is in the explanation. I'm sure that one of the guys that runs this place can probably explain it better than I have, but one you learn to incorporate sounds in your count to keep track of what you need to know you sill be amazed at yourself remembering the sound.Your internal sense of music and sound will remember things for you that you brian threw in the recycle bin long before.

PS you have a tricky double count if you have an ace included in your counting system.

Re: sing along with Stephen
Posted by Rob McGarvey on 29-Apr-2003 08:12:49 (#3967)

And I thought you were singing Happy Birthday to Sadman Who Sane.

"6, and 6, the number of the beast,
Threw hell, and fire...."

Or maybe a tune for Sammy Bin Hiddin?

"Run to the hills
Run for your l-eye-ife!"

Re: sing along with Stephen
Posted by Learning to count on 29-Apr-2003 08:40:53 (#3968)

How about the rap version,

one and da two, two and da three,
this games Ev is poontang to me.
No aces gone
I bet real strong

BOOOM I win 3 to 2!

I look up, whatta I see
the pit boss is stairing at me,
word to your motha!

Interesting technique and a good way to train. I will try it. Thanks!

El Burro's Obituary
Posted by anonymous on 29-Apr-2003 05:12:55 (#3966)

Enrique Pena (Ricky) Velasco

VELASCO, Enrique (Ricky) Pena -- 28, beloved son of Enrique and Juanita Velasco and caring brother of Nelly Velasco and Jenny and Gary Geracci. Born in San Jose, January 22, 1975. Rick attended Bellarmine College Preparatory, and received his B.S. and M.S. in Chemical Engineering from UCLA and Stanford University respectively. Throughout, Ricky, tutored in math and chemistry. After graduating, Rick worked for IBM as a Research Engineer. Last year he moved to Las Vegas where he had a successful career as a professional card player. From an early age, Rick was an avid soccer player. During high school he played in the Varsity Soccer Team and was a State Finalist in Track and Field 300m hurdles. Throughout college, he played intramural soccer while concentrating on academics. Rick enjoyed spending time with friends and his large extended family. Ricky will be remembered for his ingenuity, determination, and generosity. Friends and family are invited to a remembrance service that will be held on Saturday, April 26th, 6:30 p.m. at St. Julie Billiart Church, located at the corner of Cottle Road and Curie Drive in South San Jose.

Published in the San Jose Mercury News on 4/24/2003.

Re: El Burro's Obituary ADMIN>AdminPost
Posted by Management on 29-Apr-2003 09:02:51 (#3969)

We became aware of "El Burro's" existance through the Mayor and other AP's. Everyone of them expressed thier admiration and respect for Ricky's playing skills and great personality. All in all Ricky seems to have lived a whirlwind life which ended in tragedy. His passing is a loss to the AP world. We here at CC.COM extend our prayers to his family. We believe Ricky is playing in the big casino in the sky and shattering EV records.

Re: El Burro's Obituary
Posted by Rob McGarvey on 30-Apr-2003 10:22:13 (#3973)

I became aware of Ricky when El Burro had a run in with ZG here at this board which turned into a major kerfufel. So much serious passion mispent. We can learn from both of them what NOT to do with our life, and to both of them, I am thankful for that.

Well said...tragedy has no face, color, or creed. *NM*
Posted by Learning to count on 30-Apr-2003 21:00:41 (#3975)

What I learned from Burro in three minutes.
Posted by Moose on 13-May-2003 12:28:01 (#4102)

Wow...

I just found out about this reading the Mayor's soapbox for the month (a draconian new at-work-internet-usage policy has cramped down on my reading list) and I still don't believe it reading it.

Having met Burro a few times and seen "the fire in his eyes", I can tell this is a case of the candle burning twice as bright for half as long. In only a three-minute meeting with Burro and OCKO last December, I learned:

* Double Exposure strategy is *NOT* a sufficient substitute for hole-card strategy,
* It's better to hit 17 vs a known dealer 18 than to surrender it.
* When the RC is between 0 and 6 at a game that is only -0.25% off the top, that's a great time for cover - variance notwithstanding.

Only three minutes, but from a life too short, that's three minutes I don't intend to forget.

REQUIESCAT IN PACE

Moose.

Florida gambling
Posted by Learning to count on 29-Apr-2003 21:06:34 (#3972)

I just heard that the issue of casinos in the sunshine state may be being pushed
again in Florida. This is due to a projected budget crisis for the state. Anyone heard such a thing?

Re: Florida gambling
Posted by Rob McGarvey on 30-Apr-2003 10:27:51 (#3974)

That would be great for "Snow Birds" (term for retired Canadians) that know how to play BJ. Hope they go with DD games like MISS. I am hoping the Cuba comes back around and offers BJ by the time I am ready to fly south for the winters. Castro should be dead by then and replaced with someone a little more moderate, if not a little more capitally agressive.

Re: Florida gambling
Posted by easyrider on 02-May-2003 03:15:21 (#3986)

"I just heard that the issue of casinos in the sunshine state may be being pushed again in Florida."

God, I hope so...

Re: Florida gambling
Posted by Learning to count on 02-May-2003 08:09:54 (#3988)

I have two views on this.

1)Casinos could be a Boon for us Ap's. If the games are good. Since most of the casino backers are corporations well we know how the game is going today dont we: 6/5,SF21,Mandy bay security,etc..

2)Casinos could be bad for the state because of greed and the obvious addiction rate we have in Florida.

Greed of the government. Look at the lottery; a third goes to education and the rest who knows!

The addiction well I think if you go to the Indian casinos and see the mobs or fools waiting to pay with the house mortgage so they can feed thier gambling addiction then you will know. Personally I dont want casinos here because of the social problems involved. I still like to go Vegas anyway. Nevada was perfect for gambling becuase it was cheap, a easily corruptible government, and low populace(less social problems). Florida is crowded with retirees, poor imigrants, and a high ratio of drug dealers. Lots of money to be made with carnival games that are addictive and expensive to play. This will hurt the local populace. New Jersey for example: Atlantic city is still a dump. The boardwalk is beautiful and exciting but don't go into town! Biloxi: the coastal areas are nice but don't wander around town too much! Tunica: Well that was smart move out in the middle of no where. So at least the degenerates have a little space between them and thier demise.

Hey I am a AP degenerate but at least I have a skill. I would still go to Vegas for vacation if balckjack did not exist there is other things to do there instead of gamble! I have seen Red Rock, Grand Canyon, Boulder Dam, skiing Mt Charleston, Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennet, Siegfreid and Roy, Cirque du Soliel Mystere and O, etc. etc. etc.. I dont play carnival games for cover or for entertainment. I play BJ because I can win. Oh yeah how many of you ever sit up on the canyon rim at red rock, or on the road to the dam, or on the north or south side of the canyon and just stare. Thats why I love Vegas. Oh yeah rent a jet ski in Bullhead Arizona and ride the Colorado River!

Re: Florida gambling
Posted by easyrider on 02-May-2003 14:11:13 (#3994)

I greatly appreciate your sensibilities. Not every AP would be so concerned with the impact of gambling on the general social welfare.

Generally, gambling is destructive, stuffing the pockets of a select few who can justify feeding off the weaknesses of others, and this I can't support. However, if a juicy double-decker opened around the corner from me, I wouldn't complain...I'd take a seat, because I can win, but most can't. Do as I say not as I do...a strange dichotomy.

Re: Florida gambling ADMIN>AdminPost
Posted by Management on 02-May-2003 16:52:45 (#3999)

Easy rider we would be honored if you would join the gang here at CC.COM.

Transition from Simulation to Live Counting
Posted by Yaada on 30-Apr-2003 23:13:57 (#3976)

I practice my BS and Counting on CVBJ. Occasionally I will use a deck of cards to practice my counting if Im not able to be in front of my computer. I do fairly well during the simulations. I probably count around 20 to 25 secs for a deck. Now I know many of you have said 15 secs is probably best. I know and do agree with you all.

But when I do play at the casino just flat betting and BS, I just try to see if I am able to keep count during live play. The mentality is just to see if I can and able - I do this especially with sloooowwwwww dealers or rookie dealers. I just can not keep up with the damn count. Or I lose track or something happens like Im sitting there wondering what the hell do I do when I look at my cards and the up card. I can some what do well counting with CVBJ even with the CVBJ dealer dealing fast. Now I know Im not ready by any means to begin counting under live conditions.

But Im curious - how do you transition yourself from simulation/practice play to live play when it comes to counting? Even though Im not ready and I still just try and do it, I can see how it can become a headache. And my thoughts are if I am able to count around 15 secs for a deck and do extremely well with CVBJ, what will it take do be able to do it under live conditions. Yea I know - practice practice. But practice under live conditions with money on the table seems an expensive cost. Any tips or suggestions to help with my transition period? I guess I could just keep flat betting and do BS while counting until I realize that I can finally do it with no problem????

Thanks

Re: Transition from Simulation to Live Counting
Posted by Running Count on 01-May-2003 12:38:57 (#3980)

Hey Yaada,

I think you should go test out your skills in a casino. I've seen you post here enough to know you have the basics down. Even if you haven't cranked your EV up to the top range yet, you certainly know enough to play an advantage game if you can find decent rules and pen.

Playing in the casino is the fun part! I started out in the casino long before I knew how much you seem to know. The transition is like adjusting to cold water -- you can prepare all you want, but the plunge will make your testicles shrivel no matter how long you wait.

Re: Transition from Simulation to Live Counting
Posted by HiNoon on 01-May-2003 16:54:19 (#3981)

I think you're probably experiencing something that I was having trouble with as well. All the simulations and home-practice in the world won't prepare you for the level of real-world distraction that goes on in a casino. As long as you can focus on the count, you're golden...but what happens when there's a waitress asking you for a drink order, someone hit the jackpot on a slot machine, and that dude to the left of you keeps ashing his Marlboro on your knee?

The way that I prepare for this is not for everyone. I have a deskjob with a relatively private but BUSY office. I run simulations on my computer all day long. I keep it in the background and when I roll calls, I count cards. There are a lot of distractions here, not the same as a casino of course, but I think they trigger the same part of the brain. You're trying to train yourself to have the count be automatic, and the only way to do that is to train yourself to count while trying to focus on other things. Plus the attention of my boss is similar to that of the Pit Critter; the less heat I draw by being aware of where he is and what he's doing, the longer I can practice.

At first, this kind of thing will slow you down, big time. But it might help with your transition into the real thing. At least, that's what *I'm* gambling on.

Just don't lose your job. =)

Re: Transition from Simulation to Live Counting
Posted by terry on 01-May-2003 17:10:45 (#3982)

Yaada i fell your pain,not to long ago i was in the same place.The program you use is real good i also use it,if you have to think about BS you dont know it well enough yet. You need to get it down so you know what to do with out thinking about it,I read some where that AP dont know BS they KNOW BS.With that said,try practicing counting with some music or the ballgame on.This helped me a great deal when i went to the casino i could shut out the noise which can be distracting.good luck and good cards.My first post here have been lurking for some time but like what i see.

Re: Transition from Simulation to Live Counting ADMIN>AdminPost
Posted by Management on 01-May-2003 17:54:52 (#3983)

Hi Terry we are happy you have been lurking. So how about it! Stop being a shadow and join the group. Its free, no money down, no lease, only your promise to get involved. JOIN UP!

Re: Transition from Simulation to Live Counting
Posted by JR on 01-May-2003 23:45:38 (#3985)

There's no substitute for 'live' play... so my suggestion is just to keep on flat betting at the minimum and so what have you got to lose in a nearly even game of basic strategy BJ? So just keep on practicing at the tables till your skills improve to the point where you KNOW that the count is favourable and then increase your bet and this will inspire confidence. Good luck to you. It worked for me.

Re: Transition from Simulation to Live Counting
Posted by Learning to count on 02-May-2003 07:38:40 (#3987)

Being able to count down a deck of cards fast is very important. But the one thing that is a foundation to Advantage Play is playng strategy. In order to run you have crawl and walk first. You must know basic strategy perfectly. You must be able to go and play for hours and not make a mistake. This is why many pro players complain about the boredom. They play long hours and play perfectly. Perfect play means you know the game at hand and you know how you must play it to achieve the advantage. No Voodoo, no guessing, no good or bad feelings, just calculated play after play acording to the count(True Count if you convert Running count if unbalanced).

When I started I played BS for a year before I counted seriously. When I did start counting I was fast real fast. BUT you have to have the foundation of perfect BS play first. This does not mean you can't start learning and training how to count fast while you perfect your BS game. It does mean you need to learn basic strategy, then meorize it, then practice it then eventually go and actually play with it. JR is right you should go find a cheap game with a low casino vig and flat bet. Do this until you play fast and instinctively. You will know when you are there. You will look at the cards in front you and hit stand split or double without thought it will be a flick of the wrist.

When you are satisfied with your abilities at playing with BS then it is time to advance to counting. By now you should be fast. If you can stand it, back count, and try and play each hand as if it were yours. All the while betting and making strategy decisions according to the count. Do this a few times and if you are not satisfies with your abilities then keep playing a basic game. It will come believe me. Also while you are back counting you will start to see the advantage. Jump in and play a couple of rounds you will start to win. If you can keep the count when you jump in; jump out when the advantage leaves. For now jump in at a TC of +1 and ride it out until the TC goes below +1. For Ko I believ one deck is +2 and six deck is -4. I may be wrong but someone will correct it for me. Back counting is an excellent way to apply your counting abilities with a smaller risk. You get to play too! I hope this helps. Back countng can be addictive because you are always playing at the advantage. It can be boring if there few tables. So go somewhere and play where there is a lot of open tables. LTC

PS:www.bjinsider.com;Blackjack Insider Newsletter, May 2003, #40,"WORLD�S GREATEST JOB"

By Kevin Blackwood

...For the last two decades, I�ve lived what many would consider the American dream, earning big bucks while working only part-time. My profession? Card counter. My office? Blackjack tables all over the world....The truth is that anyone with an average aptitude can learn to count cards and become a winning player...Then, before ever setting foot in a casino, I disciplined myself to play like a machine, honing my skills with over a hundred practice hours at home, drilling relentlessly until all decisions and calculations became as natural as breathing. For example, I practiced talking while rapidly counting down decks, pushing myself until I could eventually fly through fifty-two cards in 12-14 seconds...

Re: Transition from Simulation to Live Counting
Posted by FLA Player on 02-May-2003 08:56:58 (#3991)

I too practice on CVBJ, and I am new (4 months) to counting and AP- here is a tip I got off of one of the boards (I use Hi-Lo and play 6 deck)- start the running count at 100 instead of zero, so 110 is a +10 running count and 90 is -10- this has helped me as far remembering where the count is when the inevitable casino distractions arise (hot chicks, PB, etc)

You will soon know by the number the TC fairly accurately, and it is much easier for me to remember 115 (+15 RC) compared to "plus 15"

Good luck

Welcome FLAplayer ADMIN>AdminPost
Posted by Management on 02-May-2003 09:42:34 (#3992)

We would be honored if you would join our band of Advantage Players! It's free It's educating It's a great place to learn and teach how to play Black Jack with skill!

Thanks everyone for the tips and advice! *NM*
Posted by Yaada on 02-May-2003 17:58:00 (#4002)

Splitting 10s in Tournament play - SD
Posted by Yaada on 30-Apr-2003 23:18:05 (#3977)

Is it a good idea to split 10s in Tournament play with single decks?

Re: Splitting 10s in Tournament play - SD
Posted by Rob McGarvey on 01-May-2003 09:18:59 (#3978)

Depends on which hand you are playing, ie the last one in the game, and the condition of the other players BR's at that point. You can basically toss BS out the window and go for the jugular.

When to correctly split tens..
Posted by Moose on 13-May-2003 12:33:57 (#4103)

.. if you are in a tournament format which rewards large lucky bets, such as blackjacks pay 2-1, and I am a table full of superstituous idiots, I will split my TT four ways and PRAY that the dealer makes a hand.

The idea being is, that for this minimal expense, the superstituous dummies immediately drop their bets for the rest of the shoe, leaving you MUCH more prepared to bet with/against them in later rounds.

I'm dead serious here. Make sure that when you "take the dealer's bust card" and the dealer gets 21 instead of busting, you point out how you "only did it do screw up the shoe on purpose".

ZENGRIFTER is alive and well and lurking! *LINK*
Posted by Learning to count on 01-May-2003 11:16:35 (#3979)

www.bjinsider.com has a trip report by LV pro and he has a mini interview of the Grifter who is doing 18 months federal prison time at Nellis airforce base! The Grifter is a legendary figure in the AP world. he is infamous for his BJ skills and his ability to grift. An interesting person for sure and a romantic rogue at best. Our own Rob McGarvey knows him well.

Zg's Club Fed
Posted by Rob McGarvey on 02-May-2003 08:28:01 (#3989)

Well enough to stand him up the Las time I was in Las Vegas! ;> I thought I would have to wait to hear about all of the criminal alliances he had formed in club fed, but once again I have under-estimated to power of positive blabber-mouthing. I wonder if LVP goes to the chicken ranch, will he include that into his next trip report, including the wet and sticky details? I'm sure Zg's opting into the drug rehab is simply to shorten his sentence so he can return to "his little thing" more quickly and not get any help for his problems. I can only hope that he will change, but being realistic, all I can expect is a little peace a quiet until he returns.

Having said that, I think one of his aliases may actually be a part of my recent online team efforts to deplete casinos of cash and coin! The good part about that kind of alliance is that I know I can be trusted. ;>

And the guys in jail with him are right. There are many arbs in NASCAR racing. The guys as StatFox pointed that out to me last year at the GIGSE in Toronto, and none of them have ever been to jail. Jail is not to be glorified people. You want to know the truth about jail, go visit one for an afternoon.

Now I know where he is I can send him a card any ways. Thanks for the tip!

Welcome to Nelly-ville
Posted by Rob McGarvey on 02-May-2003 08:46:35 (#3990)

Other Nellis tenant units include the USAF Area Defense Counsel (ADC), the Defense Reutilization and Marketing Office (DRMO), Air Force Office of Special Investigations (AFOSI), Det. 206 and a Federal Prison Camp (FPC).

http://www.nellis.af.mil/history.htm

The base general information number is (702) 652-1110.

4370 N. Washington Blvd
Nellis Air Force Base
NV 89191

May BJ Pro Newsletter
Posted by Rob McGarvey on 01-May-2003 18:07:30 (#3984)

Been a busy month for me but now that things are quieting down, I am getting back on track again. Is the world ready? I think not. ;>

http://webhome.idirect.com/~blakjack/nofools.htm

Rollin Rollin Rollin Rollin Rollin

PS Where's the mayor podium?

Hurry hurry, it's the first of May
Outside xxxxin' starts today
(If yur Canadian, eh)

Good sense of humor in May poll
Posted by LVBear584 on 02-May-2003 13:04:23 (#3993)

JohnPatrick.com on the poll?

LOL!

Re: Good sense of humor in May poll
Posted by Learning to count on 02-May-2003 16:24:36 (#3995)

Ok Ok I admit it LVBear. ya got me. I'm the one who voted for old JP. I couldnt help it. His web site is so hilarious! Believe it or not way back in 1994 I ordered his book "so ya wanna be a gambler; Black jack"; He professed to inventing his own BS and his own count system which was an insurance ten count. Hey ay gotta start some where. I even have his "How to play the slots" book which I recieved as a gag gift.

John Patrick DID invent his own BS
Posted by LVBear584 on 02-May-2003 17:20:08 (#4000)

He professed to inventing his own BS ...

It's true, he did. Only it was Bull S***, not Basic Strategy.

These kind of people can't always be wrong, can they? After all, Al Gore invented the Internet, didn't he? :>)

Re: John Patrick DID invent his own BS
Posted by PunkEye on 02-May-2003 18:37:33 (#4004)

Not at all. He just monopolized it.

Re: Good sense of humor in May poll
Posted by Running Count on 02-May-2003 16:24:44 (#3996)

Man, until I read johnpatrick.com, i did "stupid" things all the time! Now, I know better: I'll never split Aces or 8s against a 10, or double 11 v. 10. I can't wait for the money to pour in!

JohnPatrick.com now has Frank Stanton & his famous "flaw" *NM*
Posted by T-Hopper on 05-May-2003 00:38:18 (#4024)

Re: JohnPatrick.com now has Frank Stanton & his famous "flaw"
Posted by Learning to count on 05-May-2003 07:11:55 (#4025)

Wow a blast from the past, Frank stanton! I used to terrorize that guy on BJ21. I used to send posts I wrote from his wife "Frank if you dont stop gambling it wil be a property settlement for you, Frank if you don'nt get off that computer no BJ in Bed". You know I used to wonder if frank stanton was really J. Patrick.
The Flaw that was a great antic to disrupt the old free pages of bj21. Wow!

Doubling Hard 8 -- Index #s?
Posted by Running Count on 02-May-2003 16:34:20 (#3997)

Okay, blackjack fans:

The www.blackjackinfo.com strategy engine tells me that single deck basic strategy for hard eight is to double against 5 or 6 (implying an index of zero or neg). I noticed that www.thbj.com/bj-strat/ says the HiLo indices for hard eight are 3 for both 5 and 6.

Anyone with some other sources have the good word on this? What does Stan Wong say?

Re: Doubling Hard 8 -- Index #s?
Posted by Learning to count on 02-May-2003 16:46:21 (#3998)

Per SW's PBJ His generic numbers are hard eight you must double on 4/5, 5/3, 6/1. Page 48; table 10; strategy numbers,H17.

With 44 though, splitting is better than doubling; 3/6, 4/1, 5 & 6 you must split. This the second edition.

I only use wongs numbers. They are recommended by Schlesinger for the ILL 18 and fab four.RC you need to purchase a copy if you are using hi-lo.It is the bible! LTC

My own question answered...
Posted by Running Count on 03-May-2003 01:46:20 (#4008)

As I was making some flash cards for index numbers (i'm cranking up to 100 indices instead of studying for exams), I realized the answer...

The BS play for single deck is to double on 5 and 6 v. dealer's 8 because the effective +2 running count already on the table! The REAL index is 3, which (assuming 1/3 of the deck is out) means doubling is the right play for the BS player. Whew!

I was really annoyed at the numbers discrepancy. I feel better now. This answer explains most of the other discrepancies, too. Thanks for the post, LTC. I have Stanford's book in my Amazon shopping cart, but I'm trying to hold off on additional reading material until my finals are over.

Cheers,

Running Count

Double on 12?
Posted by HiNoon on 02-May-2003 17:32:02 (#4001)

Ok, I know, stupid question....but it's been a boring day. My mind has wandered, and I got to thinking....most of the indices and such teach me how to take advantage of a +TC by altering my betting and my BS in accordance to the count. But no one (to my knowledge) discusses the inevitable -TC, and how you should alter your BS to maximize your statistical edge. Look, I know, you're not supposed to play in a negative count. You're supposed wong out, etc. But sometimes you can't.

Sometimes you've gotta play through a negative count. Current wisdom says; in a negative count, bet your minimum, and don't stray from BS.

Well, suppose you're in that situation, and you get a 12. Is there some wisdom to taking into consideration a really high - count and doubling down? If the table is full, and everyone gets 20's but you, the count can drop pretty fast.

If I know there's a smaller chance of busting with a 10, doesn't that give me a greater chance of getting a winning hand?

Any of you out there with the capabilities of running sims or explaining the math behind this have any thoughts?

I'm just thinking out loud because...well, it's what I do.

*preparing to duck and cover*

Re: Double on 12?
Posted by The Mayor on 02-May-2003 18:12:04 (#4003)

OK, you can duck -- but the Double on 12 IS the cover.

This is a classic play -- with your min bet out, 12 vs. 5 or 12. vs. 6, super negative count, the double is almost equal EV to the hit in pure $$$ terms, and looks about as lame as anyone could possibly imagine. Yes, it loses a bit more, but hey, if it buys you several hours of positive EV play, why not?

My most amazing play: I doubled on T-T vs. the dealer's 6. I did not split, I DOUBLED!!! The count was hugely negative and I had a $5 bet out. Unfortunately, I caught an Ace and won the hand and they were SURE I was tracking aces after that 8-(

Sometimes the best ideas backfire.

--Mayor

Re: Double on 12?
Posted by panthercounter on 02-May-2003 23:12:26 (#4007)

I have successfully doubled on 12 v dealer 5 or 6 in single deck games with minus 4 or less using k-o. I even doubled on a 13 once v dealer 6 with a minus 6 count. This moves really gets the dealer looking. I would only do this in single deck with the minimum out there and with strong confidence in my count.

Re: Double on 12?
Posted by Learning to count on 03-May-2003 06:36:47 (#4009)

"I have successfully doubled on 12 v dealer 5 or 6 in single deck games with minus 4 or less using k-o. I even doubled on a 13 once v dealer 6 with a minus 6 count. This moves really gets the dealer looking. I would only do this in single deck with the minimum out there and with strong confidence in my count."

Hey cuz thats a gutsy move and I have seen you do it; but for the sake of discussion. I looked up your numbers in the book and from what I can interpret the strategy is to hit not double 12 vs 5/<=0 and 6/<=0. I think doubling is a risk at a negative count because the dealer can get small cards as well to strengthen his hand.

I dont have a problem using this as a cover with the minimum bet out but I will smack ya in the head if you try with anything more on the table. You should have smacked me when I hit that 12 on that nuetral count last trip out! We gotta help each other at those insane boredom moments!

Re: Double on 12?
Posted by Yaada on 03-May-2003 09:42:26 (#4011)

Interesting Im glad someone brought this up. I did another scouting mission at a casino just 15 mins outside of town. It was a very small casino at a local truck stop. It only had 2 BJ tables. Anyways, I noticed a guy doubling on 12. I thought it was odd especially when he hit an 8.

Now heres the real kicker - a few nights ago while in another casino (girlfriend was in a month end BJ tournament) I had played a little before her tournament. I saw some idiot double on a 6,2 and he hit an 10. Huhh???!?!?!? I was so shocked I dont even remember if he won his hand. I kept staring at his cards to make sure I did not have some mental relapse and to make sure I was not imagining it. And no the 6 was not mistaken for a 9 either. That was my second thought. Like I said I stared at the top upper corner of the cards and made sure it was a 6,2. I practically fell out of my chair. Now all the reading Ive done Ive never heard or even seen something like that.
Any thoughts?

Surrender
Posted by cadillac on 02-May-2003 20:16:14 (#4005)

According to BJA2 and the Fab 4, I should surrender 15 vs. 9,10,A and 14 vs. 10 at the appropriate idex. What about 16 vs. 9,10 A? Surrender or stand?
(6D, DAS, LS) Thanx for all responses

Per SW PBJ
Posted by Learning to count on 02-May-2003 21:27:23 (#4006)

Page 93; table 33; late surrender; H17
16 vs 9/0,10/-2 and ace/-1...
88 vs 8/49/0 10/-2
just say it in french "I Suwenda"!

PS You need to buy Stanford Wongs Professional Blackjack ISBN#0-935926-21-6. List price is $19.95. Check Amazon, Bj21.com, Advantageplayer.com, etc etc. buy it it is the bible for HI-LO. Trust me. Even Mr. Schlesinger admitted to me that he used wongs findings to form the a ll18 and fab four!

EVERYONE THAT PLAYS USING HI-LO SHOULD HAVE THAT BOOK. IF YOU DIE HAVE YOUR REALTIVES PUT IN YOUR CASKET SO YOU WILL HAVE A COPY WHEN YOU GO TOTHE BIG CASINO IN THE SKY!!! : )

Big Casino in the Sky???
Posted by phantom007 on 03-May-2003 09:57:56 (#4013)

With my luck, and due to my multiple unrepented sins, likely will have only CSM's, 6:5 BJ payoff, H17, no DAS, non-smoking, and alcohol-free!

phantom007.

Re: Big Casino in the Sky???
Posted by The Mayor on 03-May-2003 10:07:12 (#4014)

I actually laughed out loud when I read your post, thanks!

--Mayor

Trip Report
Posted by Learning to count on 03-May-2003 07:06:04 (#4010)

Just got back from Tunica Mississippi. YEEEEEHAAAAW
A red chip game!
Take home profit: 116 units.
Trip win high approxmation well over 200 units.
Trip low never went below the ole bankroll at one point I had a 60 unit plateu for several hours.

Games played were single deck, double deck, and a few shoes.
Single deck pen was rule of six. Double deck pen was any where form one deck to ten to fifteen cards to the end.

My cousin Chicago slim found a six decker with a half a deck cutoff. He took over $1200 from that table with two and half hours of play.

Panthercounter was the star of the trip. He hit his first zen level of play. We were playing a single deck game. We had stiffs and the dealer had an ace. Our count was low and no need for insurance. Panther Counter says "the dealer has a four underneath". Sure enough the dealer flipped a four and went on to pull another four. We had low standings 17 and 18 totals. He did several other moves like this and played perfectly. I was proud of him!

Trip tips:
There are nine casinos there. Check CBJN or trackjack for basic conditions before you get there. When you arrive you must have or rent a car. The casinos are within driving distances or hitchhiking. What ever your wallet allows. First day we got there we headed out and scoped every casino. Since we are three we went to different tables and checked penetrations. If we saw good pen we converged. Play from early morning until late afternoon. Lots of heads up games. We took over several six deckers; three of us playing; and several single and double deckers and tried to control the games (succesfully most of the time.)
Most of the games are ten dollar minimums so you need a good bank roll 5K-10k to make a decent amount of money. If youspread to two hands or more that is a twenty dollar bet times two =$40. I lost $200 in three hands on a positive rising single deck game playing two hands...OUCH. Hey i'm a low roller! All in all tunica is a great BJ enviroment with the majority of games being single and two deckers. If you look you will find good to great pen! Oh and there is nothing else to do except see a show and eat. You can go and see cows on the dike across from Bally's casino barn.

Congrats
Posted by ZOD on 03-May-2003 09:43:28 (#4012)

LTC--Congrats on a good trip. I've not been to Tunica, but you make it sound inviting. Best...

ZOD

It was nice to meet you guys.
Posted by Titaniumman on 03-May-2003 13:33:48 (#4016)

I will take you up on your offer one of these days.

Hey T-man! Welcome!
Posted by Learning to count on 03-May-2003 14:15:37 (#4017)

Yeah it was a great time. Let us know when you wanna come down south. We have some casino boats here that sometimes can be had! We will be back to visit you gringos in the north soon! We may bring the chupacabra(goat sucker vampire/latin american legend) with us too!

Re: Trip Report
Posted by Cyrano on 03-May-2003 16:38:41 (#4020)

Thanks for the report, but aren't you guys afraid of being caught? I mean, 3 counters sitting at the same table sticks out like a sore thumb, especially when you all raise and lower your bets simultaneously in a SD game.

Re: Trip Report
Posted by Learning to count on 03-May-2003 17:55:35 (#4021)

Naaah not the way we play. We have a good act too. We are pretty much wongers and try to limit our play and keep moving. When we sense heat on any one we deploy cover. We are good at evasion and escape. Also we are low rollers! Our average bet is two hands of $50. In our esperience the casino heat comes with big bets at the green to black level! I firmly believe that the casinos know we are skilled but they tolerate us. We are not greedy we take a little here and there. This is not our way to make a living either so that stress is off us. Pro players that I know have to make that percentage every night. We just have a great time.

Re: Trip Report
Posted by okie on 05-May-2003 10:21:08 (#4026)

Congrats on your win LTC. My last visit was about a month ago. Things didn't go as well. It was prime for the pick'en but I didn't get it done. I guess I was on the wrong side of the standard D.
Okie

Re: Trip Report ADMIN>AdminPost
Posted by Management on 05-May-2003 13:49:33 (#4031)

Okie you may have had neg div last trip but you always get plenty of positive EV here at CC.com. So why have you not officially joined up with us. It would be an honor to have you sign up. Your profile please!

Re: Trip Report
Posted by FLA Player on 05-May-2003 12:36:55 (#4028)

Sounds like you guys had a good time! Any hotties with a Southern accent in Tunica????

FLA Player

Re: Trip Report
Posted by learning to count on 05-May-2003 13:41:47 (#4030)

The southern bells are pretty, friendly, and healthy. If you have the time it is worth the effort. No hookers which good! Lots aof blonde babes with big guns!

Re: Trip Report
Posted by Wildcard on 07-May-2003 20:52:16 (#4071)

Nice to meet you guys...sorry we didn't have more time to chat.

BTW, I loved your Western story above, place is a real ace, isn't it?

Hey, you guys got goats down there? We can bring a certain "interested party", who is definitely into goats! :-)

Hope we catch up one day...stay well.

Regards,
Wildcard

May Podium
Posted by ZOD on 03-May-2003 12:32:32 (#4015)

Mayor,

That was a touching commentary. I think it says a great deal about the kind of person you are to regard El Burro as a friend after all of the problems that passed between the two of you. I can think of nothing more flattering than for someone to tally up our blue ribbons and train wrecks and, in the end, label us "friend."

Life really is too short. Thank you for reminding us of that.

Best...

ZOD

Re: May Podium
Posted by Rob McGarvey on 03-May-2003 15:47:10 (#4018)

Oh so very true. When you do not care about someone, you would not take the time to listen to them, to tell them they are way off base, stay firm in your conviction with your arms wide open hoping they can "hear" you properly. It's so much easier to say fugk you, cut your ties, and not give a sheet. Maybe if El B had stuck around long enough the Mayor would have been forced to go the second route. Playing with a bad person can end you up like you have been chasing lost bets. The Martingale as it were. There is a time and a place were you have to let go before you go under. El B chose that time for us. It was his call. I'm sure that Eli enriched his life in so many ways, and those are the things we should always try to remember......the good times.

"I WANT TO GO BACK TO TUNICA WITH MY DADDY!"
Posted by phantom007 on 03-May-2003 23:37:46 (#4022)

was what she, my middle daughter, put on her Birthday wish-list, for her May B-day, THIS YEAR!

LAST YEAR,

---Daddy took daughter with him, so that she can see what he does, i.e., ER and Casino's.

---Daddy was about 4 months out of Bankruptcy...his medical practice was one of the busiest in the state...but his parters dived when money got tight...Daddy is a LOSER!

---Daddy had a "VIP card" at GS in Tunica, so that ALL IS FREE, short of gambling monies.

---GS treated me and my daughter like Kings and Queens...my own room, her own room, free Room Service, free Gourmet Meals, etc.

---And when it was time to leave, my vehicle was parked in the front (thanks to proper tipping to the Valet staff), and I do mean the very front!

---And, even though I am a LOSER, in my daughter's eyes, I am a VIP!

THIS YEAR,

---GS has revoked my "VIP card", in that my "level of play" was not adequate. If it were not for your HEAT, my play would have qualified!

---Daddy bailed out of Private Practice, and into a position that pays about twice as much, plus benefits.

---But, I still have about $2,000. Comp $ to use up!

AND SO,

---We can go in early June...she says "No"..."Driver's Ed".

---Or maybe July...she says "No"...Mom is taking us to Arizona, so that we can experience the desert!

---August is out...taking your older brother fishing in Canada.

DAMN, I am again a LOSER!

BUT, Thanks to GS in Tunica for the PREMIUM Past Treatment.

phantom007.

---My daughter wants to go back with me to Tunica!

Re: "I WANT TO GO BACK TO TUNICA WITH MY DADDY!"
Posted by Rob McGarvey on 04-May-2003 08:43:52 (#4023)

Hold fast to what is fine, and the rest will follow you to Tunica. A loss is just a missing stepping stone on the road of life, and it is better to think of the posi's than the negi's, which can taint your entire view of life if you keep re-playing the negi's over and over again in the theater of the mind.

You are a winner. You know it, the casino knows it, and so does your daughter. You didn't have me fooled for a second.

Go forth and PROSPER! Puff out your chest and point your mind in the right direction, have faith, confidence, boldness, but most of all, have a lot of love to share. It attracts posi's like honey pulls in the bees. It'll take ya places ya never dreamed of.

Robby Mac

First tournament
Posted by FLA Player on 05-May-2003 12:27:41 (#4027)

I'm in the Hilton tourney this week- I have Wong's "Casino Tourn. Strategy" and practiced chip counting on "CVBJ"- any other suggestions or intangibles that anyone can recommend?

Thanks-

FLA Player

Re: First tournament
Posted by HiNoon on 05-May-2003 13:51:35 (#4032)

What the heck is chip counting?

Re: First tournament
Posted by FLA Player on 05-May-2003 14:06:38 (#4033)

You're playing against the other players' bankrolls, chip counting is counting the chips of your opponents in order to know where you stand- you must know how much everyone's bankroll is in order to know how much to bet- if you don't finish in the top 2 out 7 players per table, per session you don't advance. Being able to look at stacks of chips infront of other players is crucial as to know how much to bet, and sizing up the other players chips and doing the math and determining your bet all in 10 seconds time. You then have 30 seconds to play your hand.

Good to know, thanks! *NM*
Posted by hinoon on 05-May-2003 23:26:05 (#4039)

Back in the Saddle
Posted by sammyboy on 05-May-2003 13:40:58 (#4029)

After taking nearly a month off from BJ, I decided to give it another try over the weekend. After getting off to a very slow start I ended up winning 19 units or $190 after 2 hours of play. The break definitely did some good. The last time I played I was getting very angry after being dealt bad hand after bad hand. This weekend I was back to my unemotional self (on the inside at least).

I'm still a little gun shy however about putting out that max bet. I did put it out there most of the time when the count called for it, but there were a few times when I put out $40 instead of my usual $50 max. The bankroll is not quite where it needs to be but I'm close to getting there.

Go get'um, Tiger! *NM*
Posted by Cadillac on 05-May-2003 14:24:19 (#4034)

Re: Back in the Saddle
Posted by Learning to count on 05-May-2003 15:11:39 (#4035)

"After taking nearly a month off from BJ, I decided to give it another try over the weekend. After getting off to a very slow start I ended up winning 19 units or $190 after 2 hours of play."
Congrats on your positive div/ev win.

"The break definitely did some good."
Good to take a break

"The last time I played I was getting very angry after being dealt bad hand after bad hand. This weekend I was back to my unemotional self (on the inside at least)."
Anger is the first sign of STEAMING. Theory says to stick it out and continue playing the roller coaster ride;but if you get angry then stop playing in fact if you lose 5% of your bank roll (for example BR $5000 5% = $250)in a row then stop take a break and review yourself and the playing conditions. Try and find a better(PENETRATION)low bet min game. Play this when you get a good count bet a bit more and see what happens. You may find that just a change in the game/table will be better for you. I know it sounds like Voodoo but the break will help.

"I'm still a little gun shy however about putting out that max bet."
Hell yes your gunshy any normal human being can be hurt. Thats why we are human.

"I did put it out there most of the time when the count called for it, but there were a few times when I put out $40 instead of my usual $50 max. The bnkroll is not quite where it needs to be but I'm close to getting there."
Dont be afraid to not bet your max. In time you will be playing with confidense. I think that you should find cheaper games and play with a good size bankroll. Just make sure your bet scheme will still off set the games vig.
Sam I am not an expert I only profess to know what I know and what I have experienced and what other successful players have told me to go by. I hope you continue to improve and win.

Re: Back in the Saddle
Posted by The Mayor on 05-May-2003 17:00:18 (#4037)

If your playing a unit of $10 I can't think of a game anywhere where you would play a natural 5-1 spread (you said your max bet was $50).

If it is double deck, your max bet needs to be a min of $60 (6 to 1). A 5-1 or 4-1 is not going to cut it.

If you are playing single deck, then a 4-1 spread is more than enough.

Glad you won!

--Mayor

Its a Single Deck Game *NM*
Posted by SammyBoy on 06-May-2003 09:51:17 (#4041)

Long Term/ Short Term
Posted by Gunpowder on 05-May-2003 15:17:32 (#4036)

I'm having a hard time understanding the whole concept of long-term/short-term. Does this mean that each session (no matter whether same day or week later) at a blackjack table is just one big session but just split up, basically each session is a continuation of the last and in the long run if you play long enough you will lose (considering u play straight basic strayegy w/ no card counting). It just confuses me because I feel like each session is independent of any other session with no memory of what happened in previous plays.

Say that everytime I go to the casino I only play 15 hands, isn't that short term? And everyone says that in the short term a player can win but it is in the long run in which a player with always lose(unless card counting). Therefore, aren't I always playing short term by playing only 15 hands a day.

And what exactly is long term. I mean the basic strategy was developed through simulating billions of hands, I will never play a billion hands, so doesnt the strategy change a little bit. Because a 15 hands a day player and a 350 hands a day player have different definitions of long term. Does this also mean that because one is playing 350 hands a day he will reach the "long term" (and his inevitable failure) sooner than the person playing 15 hands a day.

Im not sure if any of this is valid, I am a little confused about this topic and would appreciate it if somebody could clear it up for me. Thank You.

Re: Long Term/ Short Term
Posted by Sonny on 05-May-2003 18:21:55 (#4038)

>Say that everytime I go to the casino I only play 15 hands, isn't that short
>term? And everyone says that in the short term a player can win but it is in
>the long run in which a player with always lose(unless card counting).
>Therefore, aren't I always playing short term by playing only 15 hands a day.

Think of the "long term" as your lifetime average. If you only play 15 hands a day, after 10 days you have played around 150 hands. Of course, 150 hands isn't very much, but it is much more than 15. The more days that you play, the closer to the long run (and losing more money) you get.

>Does this also mean that because one is playing 350 hands a day he will reach
>the "long term" (and his inevitable failure) sooner than the person playing 15
>hands a day.

Yes. If you play 15 hands each day, it will take you around 23 days to play 350 hands. There will be more fluctuation (up or downward tendancies) if you only play a few hands each day. The flip side is that if you are only playing basic strategy and the house still has the edge, the longer you play the more you will tend to lose. If you are playing a negative-expectation game, then safest bet is to play as little as possible if you don't want to loose money. This may mean playing 15 hands a day, then quitting for life! This also applies to Craps, Roulette or any other game where the house has the edge.

This is why card counters try to play alone and as fast as possible. We only have a very small edge over the casino, so the more hands we play per day, the more money we can expect to win (and the better our chances of winning are). Anything can happen in the short run!

I hope this helps.

-Sonny-

Re: Long Term/ Short Term
Posted by Rob McGarvey on 06-May-2003 07:28:01 (#4040)

Long term play is the phrase required to get a rational human being to spend hours and hour of its life to do what can often be done in the short term...

Nightmare at El Cortez
Posted by JLP on 06-May-2003 12:39:48 (#4042)

My first trip to LV

I was there from Friday morning to Monday morning.

Played only at El Cortez �Can El Cortez buy you a drink�.

I must admit, I thought Red Garder in Wendover was a dump, but was I in for a shocker and truly eye opener.

During my stay in LV, I played around 20 hours of BJ at EC.

This is what happened.

I used K-O, I just learned 2 weeks ago.
Played SD / $2., $3. and $5. tables.
Betting went in increments of 3 based on the count, 0-2-4+
First I must say I had no problem keeping count, sure I missed a few counts due to distractions, including a drunk falling back on his chair.
My bankrool was only 300 and I came home with 186. Most of that 186 I made Monday morning.

Here are some observations and happenings:

This very heavy dealer, sweating profusely the whole time he dealt, short changed me on a color out by 35 dollars. I questioned him, he denied it, kept saying, �it�s ok, it�s ok�. I said NO IT�S NOT OK, I want the rest of my hard earned money. At this point, several people at the table told him they saw the extra 35. I then called the PB over, he asked the dealer, and basically said, sorry; you only had 50 out there. I demanded to have the film review. After several minutes the PB came over and said, �the lighting was bad, couldn�t determine anything�. He then told the dealer, give him his money.

A drunk fell back on his chair, security came over and helped him out of the casino; this guy was out cold.

Another guy became so upset at a woman hitting a hard 17 against a dealers 6, that he called her a �f� B� and got up so quickly after the dealer revealed a 10 then drew a 5, that the chair went flying back against a slot machine.

This new Asian dealer was in trainig, with the above mention gentleman dealer that short changed me. I had a +8 count, put out my max of 15 dollars and drew two 8s, split them and ended up with a 18 and 20 and had a total of 30 dollars on the table. The dealer had a 2 up and then revealed an ace then another ace, then a 10, then a 3, then a 4 then another 10; BUSTED, right?! Ohhh no, the short Vietnamese PB came over said something no one at the table understood, took the last card the 10 and placed it in the empty tray and walked off. Dealer now had a 21, everyone lost. The whole tale started yelling, the trainee dealer was removed quickly and the heavy, sweating trainer took over.
Another time, I was talking to this Cuban lady dealer, Millie, in Spanish. At this time she was trainig an Asian girl dealer, and like all the other Asian dealers at Cortez, this trainee was performing miracles with 4,5, and 6s up; ending up with 19. 20 and 21s. I asked Millie in Spanish if this incredible luck was unusual, Millie smiles and said, �Ohhh no, casinos love young, Asian girls, they�re very lucky�. I had read something to this effect somewhere before, but had not put too much thought into it, until last weekend. I played on all shifts; I only saw 1 non Asian woman and 2 man dealers at the Cortez.

Drunks, prostitutes, both male and female, people that should be committed; yelling and swearing at the top of their lungs at imaginary opponents, all around El Cortez and all within one weekend.

I will NEVER return to downtown LV ever again!

This was my first trip to Las Vegas.

Are you sure?
Posted by LVBear584 on 06-May-2003 13:17:34 (#4044)

The dealer had a 2 up and then revealed an ace then another ace, then a 10, then a 3, then a 4 then another 10; BUSTED, right?! Ohhh no, the short Vietnamese PB came over said something no one at the table understood, took the last card the 10 and placed it in the empty tray and walked off. Dealer now had a 21, everyone lost.

The dealer did not bust. Extra cards were taken by the dealer in error.

In the exact sequence you described, the dealer had a hard 17 and erroneously hit it, drawing the 4 for 21. The boss should have burned the 10 AND the 4, resulting in a dealer 17, not a 21. Did no one point this out?

Anyone who had had less than 17 lost, and correctly so. Anyone who had 17 or above should have howled at the mistaken ruling which resulted in the 21.

A dealer 17 is the correct result. A better ruling from a customer relations standpoint would have been to pay any winners, and void the hand for the losers. But the El Cortez is not big on customer relations.

Downtown is definitely an "interesting" place, especially the very low-end dumps like the El Cortez, Western, and Gold Spike.

Re: Are you sure?
Posted by JLP on 06-May-2003 14:53:20 (#4047)

LVBear584:
:: In the exact sequence you described, the dealer had a hard 17 and erroneously hit it, drawing the 4 for 21.
The boss should have burned the 10 AND the 4, resulting in a dealer 17, not a 21. Did no one point this out? ::
Yes it was correct, the 4 and 5 might be reversed, but I�m 100% sure of the rest. No, no one, everyone was just focusing on the extra bust card, trying to grasp what the heck the critter was talking about as she burned the 10, and yelling at the poor new dealer as she collected every ones money.
:: A dealer 17 is the correct result. A better ruling from a customer relations standpoint would have been to pay any winners, and void the hand for the losers. But the El Cortez is not big on customer relations. ::

Yes, that would have been nice. I just can�t understand why most dealers are just plain unfriendly; why not smile once and a while, wish everyone good luck, say Thank You, etc. Being polite defuses most people that are rude, or angry for loosing. That guy that tipped the chair over, I thought for sure he was going to do something physical after he got up.

Here is one ya have to love!
Posted by Learning to count on 06-May-2003 16:56:18 (#4054)

BJ21.com: Las Vegas Blackjack
dealer busts thier 21
Posted By: learning to count on 6 August 02, 10:50 p.m.

Just returned from the meadows ftom a seven day BJ excursion. I was playing at a new casino on Flamingo. I had 21 total the dealer had 16. She commenced to hit with a five and then a three busting herself. She emmediatly withdrew to her supervisor who said that the hand was no good. I emmediately protested saying that "hey she busted on her own accord. She dealt herself that hand. SO pay up. The pit boss said that this was against the casino rules. The dealer has to stop at 17 to 21. I said (and this was pulling out all the stops) hey Under Nevada gaming law if she deals her self a bust hand she loses. The Pit boss became nervous as all the rest of the players and onlookers agreed with me. After several minutes of gentle protesting and some added humor to soften the criticism. The pit boss agreed to pay all players that had 17 to 21 and push any other losing hands. We all said "OK"!!!!. After some more discussion by myself the dealer and the other players. The dealer also suggested a shuffle up of the shoe. I was happy because I was at about a -3 TC, RC was -9. The table cheered. Heh heh sometimes ya goota bullshit your way through. The average bet was $25. Oh yeah the shuffle produce a healthy positive count all the way to the cut card. CE LA VIE Not to be too cocky I thanked the pit boss and stated what a liberal and well meaning casino this was.

JLP where is your sense of adventure!
Posted by Learning to count on 06-May-2003 13:51:43 (#4045)

"I must admit, I thought Red Garder in Wendover was a dump, but was I in for a shocker and truly eye opener."

It is obvious JLP you have no taste for the rude and obscure

"This very heavy dealer, sweating profusely the whole time he dealt, short changed me on a color out by 35 dollars. I questioned him, he denied it, kept saying, �it�s ok, it�s ok�. I said NO IT�S NOT OK, I want the rest of my hard earned money. At this point, several people at the table told him they saw the extra 35. I then called the PB over, he asked the dealer, and basically said, sorry; you only had 50 out there. I demanded to have the film review. After several minutes the PB came over and said, �the lighting was bad, couldn�t determine anything�. He then told the dealer, give him his money."

Come on JLP this proves that the EC hires the mentally handicap and ignorant. Equal Opputunity Employment. It was there or the military!

"A drunk fell back on his chair, security came over and helped him out of the casino; this guy was out cold."

Does he need a lwayer??????

"Another guy became so upset at a woman hitting a hard 17 against a dealers 6, that he called her a �f� B� and got up so quickly after the dealer revealed a 10 then drew a 5, that the chair went flying back against a slot machine."

You Know JLP I would've charged you more for your room. Entertainment Charge!

"This new Asian dealer was in trainig, with the above mention gentleman dealer that short changed me. I had a +8 count, put out my max of 15 dollars and drew two 8s, split them and ended up with a 18 and 20 and had a total of 30 dollars on the table. The dealer had a 2 up and then revealed an ace then another ace, then a 10, then a 3, then a 4 then another 10; BUSTED, right?! Ohhh no, the short Vietnamese PB came over said something no one at the table understood, took the last card the 10 and placed it in the empty tray and walked off. Dealer now had a 21, everyone lost. The whole tale started yelling, the trainee dealer was removed quickly and the heavy, sweating trainer took over."

"JLP you think the Pit critter would do something right, moral or just give up a little to the dumb ploppies."

"Another time, I was talking to this Cuban lady dealer, Millie, in Spanish. At this time she was trainig an Asian girl dealer, and like all the other Asian dealers at Cortez, this trainee was performing miracles with 4,5, and 6s up; ending up with 19. 20 and 21s. I asked Millie in Spanish if this incredible luck was unusual, Millie smiles and said, �Ohhh no, casinos love young, Asian girls, they�re very lucky�. I had read something to this effect somewhere before, but had not put too much thought into it, until last weekend. I played on all shifts; I only saw 1 non Asian woman and 2 man dealers at the Cortez."

JLP you should call INS/border patrol.

"Drunks, prostitutes, both male and female, people that should be committed; yelling and swearing at the top of their lungs at imaginary opponents, all around El Cortez and all within one weekend."

Hey I dont know about you but thats half the fun.

"I will NEVER return to downtown LV ever again!

This was my first trip to Las Vegas."

JLP you have to come with us we love to live on the edge. Downtown is where its at!

PS Seriously though. Down town is best played in the morning from sunup untill 11am. Then go to the strip or off strip casinos. Great trip report! LTC

Re: JLP where is your sense of adventure!
Posted by FLA Player on 06-May-2003 14:38:23 (#4046)

That's a great story, but I need to know something....with 6/5 payouts on blackjacks why play single deck? And why (LV Bear or Mayor) unless you kind of grew up playing single deck would you start your AP career playing single deck?

El Cortez single deck *LINK*
Posted by LVBear584 on 06-May-2003 15:02:32 (#4050)

The El Cortez game is among the few remaining real single decks in Las Vegas, not the 6/5 ripoff game. See Current Blackjack News for details (link below).

Reno has plenty of real single deck, but lots of heat for all but red-chip play.

My advice to a new player would definitely be to learn the shoe game.

Re: JLP where is your sense of adventure!
Posted by JLP on 06-May-2003 14:54:08 (#4048)

Learning to count:
You are one funny dude, I just laughed out loud here at work when I read your response.

:: PS Seriously though. Down town is best played in the morning from sunup until 11am. Then go to the strip or off strip casinos. Great trip report! LTC::

Thank You!
You are right, it was around 8:30am when we stopped in before heading home and the atmosphere was a bit different, still a dump, but a bit nicer then the previous nights.

Re: Nightmare at El Cortez
Posted by Felix Rue-de-Guerre on 06-May-2003 15:23:03 (#4051)

LTC is right, all the lowbrow Gaughan properties do not honor the concepts of "Rude" and "Polite". You need to take it all in stride. One website even lists the patrons at the Gold Spike as their main entertainment. You just need to think of it as interactive theater.

I once walked into the Goldspike and asked if they had a room available. A seemingly drunk, fat, greasy guy behind the counter glared at me for every bit of ten seconds then snidely shouted "NO-O!". If this happened in a hotel along the Ohio Turnpike I would have asked to see a manager. But c'mon... it's Vegas!

AAAAAAAAHHHHH THE WESTERN
Posted by Learning to count on 06-May-2003 15:30:53 (#4052)

This one of my posts on a true story that happened to me at the western! ANd chu tink EL CORTEEZ was Malo!

BJ21.com: Main Free Message Board
AAAAAAAAH the western
Posted By: Learning to count on 9 December 02, 10:28 p.m. in response to: Western "ambiance" (LVBear584)

Last april my best friend and my cousin decided to visit the western just for the experience. We parked accross the street and we were met by a gentlemen who advised he was the parking lot security and official vehicle wash and wax man. We flipped him two bucks to watch the car with a promise of a tip if the vehicle still had its tires on when we came back.
As we entered the casino through the open garage door we were met by the security guy sitting on the highchair in front of the dollar blackjack table. I looked up at him and said Howdy. He tipped his hat to us. I then asked him "Any problems in here old timer" he responded by saying "nope not on my shift" and patted his six shooter strapped to his right thigh. We sat down at the old table in front and bought in for $20 bucks each. The dealer was a young pimple faced kid who dealt very slowly. Another dealer stood next to him and quietly coached him.
A mexican fellow sat next to me and told me how he just won a $60 dollar jack pot at a quarter slot machine and that he was buying drinks for everyone. I said "thanks but I think they are free for players." He responded by saying "oye chico eet ees the thought that counts".

The game started and everyone bet the minimum. I bet five times the minimum. The mexican leened over and said "Hombre that ees half your money calm down so chu can play longer." I smiled and winked at the waiting dealer. The game started and I got a snapper. The mexican got a sixteen and doubled. He was hit with a five and he cheered. "Tequila for every one!"

The "beautiful" waitress came over and took our orders and soon returned with my cup of coffe. The cup had red lipstick on it. The mexican leaned over and whispered " I tink chee likes you hombre she kissed your glass".

After a half hour of play I was up fifty dollars and the mexican was drunk and fast dropping his $60 slot jack pot to the Western. In time he was bottomed out. He stood up and said "eets not how chu play eets how chu lose, like a man Hombre...Ya me voy....Elena ees waiting for me." I bid him adios.

Soon it was my time to leave. I cashed in my meeger win and went to find my cohorts who were at another table. As we walked towards the back to see the rest of the casino I saw a pair of feet sticking out of the front of a table top slot machine. A homeless guy was laying there. I told a passing employee, who with two other employees picked up the gentleman and walked him to the back exit door.

As we left we walk past the security OFFICER. He tipped his hat and said "Come back soon fellows". We met our personal parking lot security guy and found that our rental car was intact with the windows mirrors and headlights rubbed clean. We gave him a five. As we drove away we saw him walking into the Western.

Would I go back? Yeah just for the atmosphere of a old western casino of old las vegas. I hope the new owners put air conditioning in there.

Great Stories!!!
Posted by Big Cowboy on 07-May-2003 09:15:13 (#4057)

Let me just say that I must just suck. I mean, here are all of these great stories, and these types of things never seem to happen to me. Granted, I've only been to downtown Vegas once, but I've been to Vegas about seven times--obviously carrying on mostly on the strip. I was single on my trips there. No prostitutes or good-looking hoes came up to me to ask about spreads, penetration, risks and allowed me the chance to turn them down. No drunks yelling at the other players. No Hispanic gentleman giving me advice. I think I just play BJ and mind my business too much. Or is it because I am just a red chip player who sometimes gets lucky and gets a lot of black. I only seem to see on occasion rude or racist dealers. Maybe I should go to the Hard Rock Casino the next time.

Re: Great Stories!!! ADMIN>AdminPost
Posted by Management on 07-May-2003 10:29:22 (#4059)

Maybe if you would come in from the cold and sign up with a Profile. You would become a regular and you could hang with the AP's in the know.

Tips on having a great time in Vegas
Posted by Learning to count on 07-May-2003 13:45:16 (#4068)

I was single on my trips there. No prostitutes or good-looking hoes came up to me to ask about spreads, penetration, risks and allowed me the chance to turn them down.
2. Come on man even a monkey in a tux could meet a woman in vegas. ...Hooker or weekend warrior its not that hard. One tip go to the Mirage go to the high rollers pit. There is a lounge...kind of a u shaped long bar there. You will see at least a dozen of women sitting there by themselves usually playing video poker. Go up stand next to them and buy a drink. Start a casual conversation and things will usually go good after that. Topics can include: the heat, how much you won or lost, your recent divorce, or your belief in why the sun is a radioactive furnace etc. etc..

No drunks yelling at the other players. No Hispanic gentleman giving me advice. I think I just play BJ and mind my business too much.
3. Sometimes it's better to mind your own business. BUT if you want to see the seedier side of vegas ya need to hook up with us and you will see.

Or is it because I am just a red chip player who sometimes gets lucky and gets a lot of black.
4.Black huh?!?! Maybe we should hook up with you!

I only seem to see on occasion rude or racist dealers.
5....and your point????????????

Maybe I should go to the Hard Rock Casino the next time.
6. Hardrock sux. Bad pen! High minimums suck! Go to the Palms lots of women hooker and civilian. Barbi doll waitresses. Hip crowd. Descent six deck with fair to good pen!!!!

Re: Nightmare at El Cortez
Posted by The Mayor on 08-May-2003 10:57:07 (#4077)

The "El Cortez" is not a beginner's casino -- it takes a lot of experience to play there. I suggest sticking to places that don't have snot on the chips until you have some real experience. Avoid: El Cortez, Western, Golden Spike.

I have been kicked out of the Kotex 4 times now for my play there. Once in 3 minutes.

You are getting great advice in this thread.

--Mayor

Re: Nightmare at El Cortez
Posted by Learning to count on 08-May-2003 15:30:22 (#4079)

I like that "The Kotex"....hahahahaha....better than the sweaty spaniard. Your right though ya gotta be sneaky at "The Kotex".

El Kotex Player's Card
Posted by phantom007 on 08-May-2003 18:21:23 (#4080)

I played there 2 years ago. PC asked if I would like a Player's Card, and be rated. Sure...I gave him my name, address, etc. (yeah, I know, stupid).

After about 30 min., he returned with a PAPER "card", not the usual "credit card quality", with my name and player I.D. # apparently typed on the card.

And my player #? Let us just say that it is between 0001 and 9999. Or in other words, I am about the 5000th Kotex customer to be rated!

After I got my card, my green action kept causing the PC to cough. Must be allergic to the green chips. And coughing often caused the Dealer to shuffle. One Asian dealer apparently did not speak "cough", and kept on dealing...and PC kept on coughing.

After about 3 hours, cashed out $26. ahead. Had been about $300. ahead, but kept getting distracted by some old guy making Royal Match sidebet, and kept losing the count. The gay guy who cashed me out was also VERY friendly! Who says the Kotex does not have Customer Service...just that I prefer my fudge "unpacked".

ph7

Re: El Kotex Player's Card
Posted by JLP on 08-May-2003 21:33:49 (#4082)

........
PH7:
I was having another bad night here at work and your post made me laugh...thanks :)

......................
You are getting great advice in this thread.
.......
The Mayor:
You're right! This is indeed a wonderful place to learn and share information; no matter what level you're at. Thank You!

Re: El Kotex Player's Card
Posted by Cyrano on 09-May-2003 00:54:43 (#4083)

*lol* I was watching an ABC special "Who wants to steal a million"... 3 people conspired to steal money from "Who wants to be a millionaire" by, of all things, coughing to tip off the right answers. Coincidence?

------

Re: El Kotex Player's Card
Posted by The Mayor on 09-May-2003 12:07:09 (#4084)

Please recall that there are no "green" chips at the Kotex, the $25 chips are a sickening shade of brown.

Kotex Brown.
Posted by phantom007 on 10-May-2003 02:05:49 (#4089)

Mr. Mayor, not trying to argue with a superior authority, but I do sincerely believe, that they were ORIGINALLY GREEN!

But after typing above, I CONCEDE! The $25. Chips were BROWN! But you must admit they had "little green specks"...what were these specks?

And come to think of it, I believe that the red chips have little brown specks, and the 4 blacks in the rack had little white specks!

DAMN! That Gay Cashier I mentioned several posts above is playing "BUTT PENNIES" with OUR chips!

OK, Sir...you win........but I stayed around long enough for EL KOTEX to buy me a drink!...or four.

Next EC, I mean EK trip, I plan to add a new camoflague (sp?) play...simply pass out in Neg. Counts, and come around when TC exceeds +2 in SD.

phantom007.

Re: Kotex Brown.
Posted by FLA Player on 12-May-2003 15:41:21 (#4100)

Well I just got back from Vegas and based on JLP, LTC, and everyone else, I ventured into the Western, El Cortez and Lady Luck- I am not a single deck player but played for about 2-3 hours......Canned beer, homeless guys sitting at the bar, hookers getting busted by cops on bikes(the clark county detention center is right THERE!)- a long way from Bellagio! Oh, and this was Friday afternoon, not 3 in the morning....

It seemed to me (I am not a single deck player, but a hi-lo 6 deck shoe player) that the count might get a little high and then there would be a shuffle- it seems hard to win many hands in a row or get on any type of streak...what do the majority of single deck counters use? 1-4 spread is what I used with 2- 3 other players.

Fla Player

Re: Nightmare at El Cortez
Posted by BetSizer on 11-May-2003 17:14:33 (#4092)

I would just like to point out that, with a top bet of $15, you are grossly overbetting your $300 bankroll. Keep it up, and you'll find yourself busted out for sure.

21st. Century Sidecounting Question
Posted by Rob V. on 06-May-2003 21:46:09 (#4055)

In best posts, Adam N. Subtractum provides a much simpler method of sidecounting. Being somewhat 20th century, I can't wrap my brain around it entirely. Subtractum writes:

"-21st Century Sidecounting Steps-

1. Count down Aces played
2. Add Aces remaining to Running Count and convert to True Count "

...and then use this new TC for playing strategy. This seems too good to be true. On every hand off the top of a single deck that does not contain an Ace, you are supposed to adjust your RC and therefore TC by +4 {Hi-Lo)? This automatically makes such plays as

STAND 16 v. 10
STAND 12 v. 2
STAND 12 v. 3
DOUBLE 5,5 v. 10

correct off the top. Am I missing something?

Thanks for any enlightenment on this topic. This really caught my interest.

- Rob V

Re: 21st. Century Sidecounting Question
Posted by T-Hopper on 07-May-2003 09:12:10 (#4056)

You should start your TC at -4, and that will represent what you used to think of as a count of 0.

Re: 21st. Century Sidecounting Question
Posted by Rob V. on 07-May-2003 11:20:36 (#4063)

"You should start your TC at -4, and that will represent what you used to think of as a count of 0. "

Of course, thanks! Of course, if you really meant "TC" instead of "RC", that confuses me.

This adds a surmountable readjustment to betting. I don't know yet if I can just shift my TC betting levels down, or add and subtract 4 back and forth from the RC when playing/betting. I guess a need a day or so to think about it, and how it all comes together.

I can see a glimmer now of what you guys must be doing with "Ace variable pivots" and such. Since I use Zen, this side count could be used very nicely for betting. I'll try to work that out someday, but I'm more interested in strategy at the moment. I'm happy right now with the conventional betting algorithm.

You guys have really opened up multiparameter counting possibilities. Very nice job.

- Rob V.

Re: 21st. Century Sidecounting Question
Posted by Rob V. on 08-May-2003 14:39:45 (#4078)

Nope, you did mean TC, didn't you? My apologies. An excerpt from Brett Harris's explanation of Unbalanced True Counting at bjmath.com:

-----------------------------------------------
Tc(n) = Tb(n) - U.

Or to put it another way, if you start your running count at -pivot instead of zero, then it is possible to compute a true count for the unbalanced system, and this true count is always different from the equivalent balanced count by U, and so this may be used in conjuction with published indices for Hi-Lo to use the unbalanced system in the same way as for a balanced system. Note though that the neutral deck no longer has a true count of zero, it has a true count of -U.
--------------------------------------------------

Thanks again,
Rob V.

Re: 21st. Century Sidecounting Question ADMIN>AdminPost
Posted by Management on 07-May-2003 13:08:04 (#4067)

You know MR V. It would be nice if you would file a profile and become a full member of CC.COM! I know the other members would be happy to know that you are on our side of the table! CC.COM WANT'S YOU!

Where's AnS lately? *NM*
Posted by Magician on 14-May-2003 02:51:53 (#4110)

KO, HiLO, Hi Opt I
Posted by Big Cowboy on 07-May-2003 09:19:20 (#4058)

I'm just curious. I've noticed on the message boards that a lot of APs use the KO or HiLo systems. I know in the book "Bringing Down the House," the MIT guys used the HiLo system also. I use the Hi Opt I because that was the first system that I came in contact with, is easy to use (I rarely make mistakes even when I'm buzzed), that also taught me basic strategy. Is the Hi Opt I inferior to other systems? Just wondering how it compares to other systems, especially in ease of use and EV. What do you all think? Is it worth my while to learn another system?

Re: KO, HiLO, Hi Opt I
Posted by Rob V. on 07-May-2003 10:50:22 (#4062)

"Is the Hi Opt I inferior to other systems? Just wondering how it compares to other systems, especially in ease of use and EV. What do you all think? Is it worth my while to learn another system? "

Hi Opt I used well is great, and you say you use it well. I don't like it, for the same reasons I don't like any count that tags Aces as zero. While KO and Hi-Lo are perfectly good counts without a side count of Aces, Hi Opt tends to be miserably crippled without it. For me, implementing a strategy-based ace adjustment is much easier and necessary less often. I also couldn't imagine having to sidecounting and using 24 aces accurately in a six decker. A swift kick in the groin sounds like more fun.

So, "Ease of use" - harder than both. "EV" - great, if you master its "harder than both" aspect.

If you're happy, keep it up. It's a powerful count. I would only really consider switching if

1) you're hitting mainly shoe games, or
2) KO and High-Low appeal to you based on your personal preferences/abilities with unbalanced-osity, ace-reckon-osity, etc.

Just my two cents,
Rob

Re: KO, HiLO, Hi Opt I
Posted by Big Cowboy on 08-May-2003 10:26:30 (#4075)

Just wondering where I can find a copy of the Hi-Lo strategy. Is it in a book like the Hi Opt I? Or is it as easy as finding it on the internet?

Re: KO, HiLO, Hi Opt I
Posted by Rob V. on 08-May-2003 10:46:53 (#4076)

Look to your left on the green left nav bar. Click on "System Indices". Click on -1 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 -1 . That's High-Low. You'll get the 18 most important strategies.

The book you want is _Professional Blackjack_, by Stanford Wong. My first blackjack book - ah the memories. It's the primary reference for High-Low. I don't use his counts anymore, but I was STILL looking at it yesterday for reference. I highly recommend it.

- Rob V.

Re: KO, HiLO, Hi Opt I
Posted by FLA Player on 07-May-2003 11:21:37 (#4064)

I also started with Hi OPT 1 (after reading "WGBJB") and because there is the Ace side count the playing efficency isn't as strong as Hi-Lo. You will pick up Hi-Lo easily with a little practice, it is a very good count for shoe games. Someone who is more of a math guy could provide some stats for the % breakdown of the actual difference.

In my opinion, Hi-Lo is far superior and easier to use (no ace side count).

FLA Player

Re: KO, HiLO, Hi Opt I
Posted by Felix Rue-de-Guerre on 07-May-2003 11:34:27 (#4065)

I started with Hi-opt1 and switched to Hi-Lo. I takes very little practice to add the 2's and aces to you count, I18 is about the same. I don't remember for sure, but I think the increase in Bet Efficiency was about +.1.

Good increase in gain for only a little work.

Comparison *LINK*
Posted by Running Count on 07-May-2003 13:07:24 (#4066)

See link below...

Re: KO, HiLO, Hi Opt I
Posted by Sonny on 07-May-2003 15:59:43 (#4069)

If you're going to be playing shoe games, I would definately recommend the Hi-Lo. An ace side count can become a pain real quick when you're counting down six decks!

However, If you're playing mostly pitch games then I would stick with the better playing and insurance efficiencies of Hi-Opt I. Personally, I use the Hi-Opt II for all types of games and have never had any trouble.

Everyone has their own system that works for them in the games they play. Keep in mind that any of these systems will give you an edge. If you are only a recreational player it may not make much difference.

-Sonny-

Re: KO, HiLO, Hi Opt I
Posted by Big Cowboy on 07-May-2003 16:30:02 (#4070)

Actually, I don't use an Ace side count because it is a pain. I know that decreases my playing efficiency, but I've been using this system now for over 10 years an am very comfortable using it. It's so ingrained inside my head, I can just pick up anytime and play BJ drunk, distracted, half-asleep or trying to get oxygen in a smoke-filled room. Also, it took me so long to learn one system, I'm not sure how long it would take me to learn a new one. I also play shoe games because I've never gotten any heat for it and am not comfortable playing pitch games. I appreciate the input and hope you all have some more.

Re: KO, HiLO, Hi Opt I
Posted by Sonny on 07-May-2003 23:24:10 (#4072)

>Actually, I don't use an Ace side count because it is a pain. I know that
>decreases my playing efficiency, but I've been using this system now for over
>10 years an am very comfortable using it. I also play shoe games because I've
>never gotten any heat for it and am not comfortable playing pitch games.

In that case, I would recommend switching to HiLo. Not using the Ace side count drops the betting efficiency of Hi-Opt I from .96 (Humble's figure. Possibly exaggerated) to .88. Since proper betting is the most important part of the game, especially in shoe games, the HiLo would be your best bet out of the three systems.

>It's so ingrained inside my head, I can just pick up anytime and play BJ
>drunk, distracted, half-asleep or trying to get oxygen in a smoke-filled room.
>Also, it took me so long to learn one system, I'm not sure how long it would
>take me to learn a new one.

For me, switching from Hi-Opt I to Hi-Opt II took about 1-2 days. Learning the new card values is pretty easy once you practice for a while. If you are trying to learn all new indices as well, then it becomes much tougher. Of course, if you find yourself making too many mistakes than you can always switch back. Counting cards is useless unless you are keeping an accurate count. If you are comfortable and happy with the Hi-Opt I then you should stick with it, but if you want to move on to a better system then try HiLo. I don't think counting an extra 2 cards will throw you off that much, and it will increase your accuracy quite a bit.

Again, it all depends on how much you play and how serious you are about becoming a better player. Any of these systems can earn you money, but some will do it faster (and more often) than others.

-Sonny-

Wide spread
Posted by Guy777 on 07-May-2003 10:31:09 (#4060)

Is a wide spread a good thing ??

I play in the UK and am able to get away with �5 to �200 (at TC=6+).

Pen is good as well, with only one deck of six cut off.

With UK rules and the top 6 stratergy variations my sim says avergage �32 ish per hour....

SD is quite big though at about �500 per hour.

The fluctuations I experience seem quite big (although within 2 sd limits)

Does anyone know if a narrower spread give me a smoother (all be it long term smaller) return ?

Guy

The Answer
Posted by Rob McGarvey on 08-May-2003 07:48:23 (#4073)

is found in the relation of the expected edge you have to your bank ala Kelly. Overbetting and underbetting cut into your overall 4Q #'s, but may protect you, or send your BR into orbit. If we had an unlimited bankroll we (wouldn't be playing BJ now would we?) could simply bet table max when we have an edge and nothing or nickels when we don't. If you can sit out until the decks go positive you will not need a wide spread like that. Rule of thumb is 2u per deck ie 12-1 for 6D LV rules play all. If you can wong in at +2TC you can bet 3u and switch to a 4-1 spread, going 6u at +3 8u at +4 and 12 at +5 (if you ever get there) truely pushing your advantage.

u = 1/12 of 1% of BR approx.

Re: The Answer
Posted by The Mayor on 08-May-2003 09:18:37 (#4074)

Work backwards from your max bet. What is the largest bet you feel comfortable playing.

The way to reduce variance is not to reduce your spread, it is to leave when the count is bad. Simply not playing through negative shoes/decks will do more for your bankroll than all the spreads put together.

--Mayor

Re: The Answer
Posted by Guy777 on 12-May-2003 09:24:15 (#4098)

Wonging is a challendge here, the casios are tiny, it is not unusual to have only one blackjack table open... So I am forced in most curcumstances to play all, otherwise its looks a bit strange.

Guy

Re: Wide spread
Posted by Cadillac on 08-May-2003 20:14:51 (#4081)

Rob and The Mayor's expertise is much more valid than mine. However, I will be in London in 2 weeks. Can you recommend a casino w/ good blackjack conditions? Do I need to register before I arrive? Thank You

Re: Wide spread
Posted by Guy777 on 12-May-2003 09:19:52 (#4097)

Check this group out http://www.lciclubs.com/, 6 decks normally only one deck cut off. But the rules here are a bit pants, no whole card, double 9,10,11, DAS, resplit aces, and resplit generally as manay as happends.

You will need to register at least 24 hours before entering the casino, that is law here at moment... still in the dark ages!

Have fun!

Guy

Posted by on 31-Dec-1969 18:00:00 (#4085)

Re: Unbalanced count...
Posted by phantom007 on 10-May-2003 03:40:10 (#4090)

Hi Mr. Smith! I will answer some of your questions, or "at least get things started". I am not a BJ expert, BTW, but I have read 3-4 books!

Q.#1: "How does unbalanced count system work?

A.#1: Depends ONLY on INTENT/GOAL:

For example, if your main goal was to win Insurance bets, then an UnBal. system wherein 10's = -2, and all other cards = +1, implies that any TC above +4 indicates that you should take Ins.

Silberstang suggests that for whatever CC system you use, that you should UnBal. same by your relative House disadvantage...for example, if one enters a 6D game, wherein bad rules give you a (-0.5%) disadvantage, thus implying 0.083
% +/- times 6D = 0.5%......thus, start all 6D games at a MINUS-6 RC (or a MINUS-1 TC)...thus, at any TC's above ZERO, you should increase your bet.

But then, the old RED-7, intentionally UnBal., gives one great BE, but piss poor PC, and mediocre IC...why it is so popular, I do not know!

Q.#2: Is the TC calculated the same way?

A.#2: YES!

Q.#3: Is there any significant difference from balanced count system(sic)?

A.#3: See Answer for #1 above. I suggest Schoblete's "Best BJ" so that you may compare various systems.

Everything depends on your INTENT! Winning a few $$$ is a given.

MANY ways are PROVEN...no one is perfect. Flexibility is key to long-term success.

Hope this has helped.

phantom007.

I18++
Posted by Felix Rue-de-Guerre on 10-May-2003 00:50:39 (#4088)

What is the optimal order in which to learn indecies for Hi-Lo past I18?
(no surrender game)

Does a chart exist that states gain in EV by single index, in order, from I18 to lesser valued indecies? If so, please don't tell me this information is in PBJ. If so, I will be taking some time away from blackjack to take a remedial reading course.

...

Strangely beautiful night in Cleveland tonight. Lightning is shooting everywhere. The air smells like ozone and rain.

Thanks all,
Felix

Re: I18++
Posted by The Mayor on 10-May-2003 12:27:12 (#4091)

I don't know the exact order beyond the I-18, but I will hazzard a guess.

You want to learn those plays that occur often and have high variance -- e.g. are played with large bets out.

Here are a few of the non I-18 plays I would learn, in the order I would learn them:

Doubling 8 vs. 3,4,5,6
Splitting T-T vs. 2-4
Doubling the soft hands: A,x vs 2-6, where x = 8,9
Doubling the soft hands: A,x vs 2,3, where x = 2,3,4,5,6,7
Doubling 7 vs. 5,6

That's enough for now 8-)

--Mayor

Re: I18++
Posted by Felix Rue-de-Guerre on 13-May-2003 19:07:51 (#4106)

When you say:
"You want to learn those plays that occur often and have high variance -- e.g. are played with large bets out."

It seems intuitive that positive idecies that "chime in early" are best to learn next. Doubling 8 on a six at +1 is the proper index(6 decks S17), so one absolutely better be doing this by the time he gets to +5 when a high bet is out.

Also, It seems soft hands would be the last indecies to learn because a single specific card is needed (Ace) to make this hand. They should occur less often.

However, a soft hand with a low, positive index may be worth considering. Like A-4 vs 4.

Since I18 covers %80 of Playing Efficiency, would I just be near as well off not overthinking this and just learn the indecies that were easiest to remember?

Thanks
-Felix

Re: I18++
Posted by The Mayor on 15-May-2003 10:28:27 (#4121)

You said:
Also, It seems soft hands would be the last indecies to learn because a single specific card is needed (Ace) to make this hand. They should occur less often.

No, the rarest indices are the splitting indices, e.g. 9-9 vs. 7.

CC.com "Pop-ups" ???
Posted by phantom007 on 11-May-2003 18:31:53 (#4093)

Was surfing through CC.com tonight (CST), when I got a "pop-up" from GoldenPalace Casino (sic)...200% bonus on first deposit, etc. Likewise, in recent weeks when on this site, I get same for stuff I need (weight-loss) and stuff I do not (penis enlargement).

Anyhow, are these "ads" coming via attendance to CC.com, or from me quite simply being on line?

Would certainly like to support OUR sponsors, provided they are endorsed by OUR trusted members. BTW, has anyone tried the penis enlargement, I mean, weight loss products?

ph7.

Re: CC.com "Pop-ups" ???
Posted by Cyrano on 11-May-2003 19:23:52 (#4094)

If you're using AOL, go ask their tech support for a download fix to stop your computer from broadcasting your IP address to the world. If you're not using AOL, chances are, you've downloaded a worm or some kind of backdoor trojan to let people see your IP anyways. I would suggest you do a complete scan of your computer using an updated Norton Antivirus or McAfee. Though this could possibly catch the problem, I would wager against it. Sorry I can't be of more help.

Re: CC.com "Pop-ups" ???
Posted by The Mayor on 11-May-2003 20:09:30 (#4095)

As far as I know, this site does not have any pop-ups. I have never had one appear.

Worms...

They're more fun to eat.

Re: CC.com "Pop-ups" ???
Posted by Cyrano on 12-May-2003 11:52:20 (#4099)

*lol* i'm breathing a sigh of relief that nobody made any allusions to "backdoor trojan".... 8')

---------

Worms...

They're more fun to eat.

Thanks Cyrano!
Posted by phantom007 on 16-May-2003 00:38:38 (#4124)

Good Advice! Will follow. And maybe should spend a few units to renew my Norton Anti-Virus as well.

ph7.

Re: Thanks Cyrano!
Posted by Cyrano on 16-May-2003 01:18:53 (#4125)

Felix's Adware software advice is very sound, though at the rate the hacking software evolve, I'm sure you'll need to do it again in about 6 months. Here is something else you MIGHT want to consider if you are computer-savvy... In the "internet options" portion of your browser (for IE, it should be under "tools" up at the top of your window), set your security to either medium or high. This will prompt you and/or automatically reject downloading anything that Microsoft considers "hazardous". You can also go to the "advanced" portion and disable anything that's java. Again, I caution you right now that fooling around with any of this MIGHT cause you more trouble than the ads themselves. Good luck~

Re: CC.com "Pop-ups" ???
Posted by Felix Rue-de-Guerre on 12-May-2003 07:20:25 (#4096)

There is a great free program called "Ad-aware". It locates and gets rid of adware type programs that you may have inadvertently agreed to have installed. I think you can get it at Download.com.

Re: Ad-aware
Posted by Coug It on 12-May-2003 21:32:47 (#4101)

You can get the d/l here:

http://downloads-zdnet.com.com/3001-2144-10186632.html

Re: Ad-aware
Posted by SammyBoy on 13-May-2003 13:47:50 (#4104)

You can also go to the Control Panel, Add/Remove Programs and remove anything that you do not recognize. This is not recommended if you don't know what you're doing. There's a good chance it will be a program called SaveNow or Gator or something along those lines.

You have to be very careful when browsing the web and clicking ok on Windows dialogue boxes. You also have to be very careful when installing software, many times the vendor bundles this crap in with legitimate software. Kaaza is one of the biggest offenders.

Here's what I'm doing...
Posted by HiNoon on 13-May-2003 18:57:44 (#4105)

I figured I'd post my practice routine here because I'm a moderate-newbie, and it'd be great to get some advice.

Currently, I go to bju21.com and load up their counting drill. I use standard Hi-Low with 15 cards per screen, 5 screens per round. The cards are displayed in three rows of five.

I'm getting pretty good at "reading" groups of 5 cards, so first I establish the RC. Then, before I click "next screen", I look at each column of 3 cards and treat them as if the top 2 are my cards, and the bottom card is the dealer's up card. So I have to make 5 accurate BS plays before I move on.

By the time I get to the end of the 5 screens and get to check my count, I've also completed 25 BS hands (well, the first decision anyway).

This seemed like a good way of merging my counting/BS drills. I don't think there are any major flaws...but I could be wrong. The BJU drill seems to give a pretty random count, sometimes it ends on 0 and sometimes on -14. This routine does slow me down a considerable amount...but it also forces me to start retaining the RC while I switch my focus to the correct BS. Right now, if I can do it in about a minute, I feel pretty snazzy. I do wish that the BJU drill had a stopwatch at the end, but my computer's clock will have to do.

Thoughts? Suggestions on making this more efficient?

Back to the grind

-Hinoon

Re: Here's what I'm doing...
Posted by The Mayor on 13-May-2003 20:10:47 (#4108)

Any practice is good practice...

I have not visited the site in question, but as long as your are doing the work to improve, and you are doing a wide variety of exercises, the ultimate test will be at the tables to see if this is working or not. I do suggest you do as many exercises as you can think of with an actual deck. Here are a couple I do.

* Remove 2 cards from the deck, count it down, then attempt to tell what possible combinations those last two cards could be at the end of the count down.

* Do random flashes of 2-5 cards and "grok" their count, then recheck to see if you got it right. For this, you show yourself the cards for the least period of time you can, sometimes it is just an instataneous flash.

* Grab a pile of cards and attempt to say how many cards you are holding out of the deck. Verify. Do not reference the other pile when you are guessing, just the pile you are holding.

Variety is what you need -- life throws a lot of curves,

--Mayor

Re: Here's what I'm doing...
Posted by Rob McGarvey on 14-May-2003 08:11:49 (#4111)

"Variety is what you need -- life throws a lot of curves,"

Just make sure you only swing at the right ones and you'll do fine. ;>

Single-Deck Spread
Posted by Coug It on 13-May-2003 23:26:34 (#4109)

Am planning a trip to a town where single-deck is prevalent. What technique is successful for bet ramping??

I'm almost sure to will find full tables of 7 spots and a shuffle after two rounds. If I am starting a new deck at 1-2 units, how can I jump to 10-12 units when the count justifies it without drawing too much attention??

I have just read "Burning the Tables in LV", but it doesn't talk about this very subject. Any help would be appreciated.

Re: Single-Deck Spread
Posted by Rob McGarvey on 14-May-2003 08:17:16 (#4112)

I think it doesn't talk about that specific situation because it is not the recommended situation to find yourself in. If single deck is prevailant then you should be able to get an empty table and at least 50% pene if not 60 or 70%. If you are using Ustons APC and the Ill-18 and your min bet is normally green or black your spread will be different than it would be if you normally bet in red.

Re: Single-Deck Spread
Posted by The Mayor on 14-May-2003 08:45:16 (#4113)

I have seen this done usually by a reverse spread... come off the top big and reduce if the count tanks, otherwise increase (but just a little) if the count goes up.

I saw someone spread $25-$500 this way at single deck, coming off the top with $200 to $300.

That said, I have been known to spread $5 to $100 quite often at single deck. But I do it "hit and run" style. This would not work if the game was other than head's up... the kind of game offered at a few select locations.

--Mayor

Re: Single-Deck Spread
Posted by SammyBoy on 15-May-2003 12:32:24 (#4123)

IMO, it is nearly impossible to get heads up single deck unless you play during the week in the early morning hours 2AM to 4AM. Maybe it is different in Nevada, but the places I play it is very seldom that there are less than 3 people at a table. All you can do is smile when the count skyrockets and the two ploppies next to you get snappers and you get the stiff. I use a 1 to 5 spread but bet 2 units on the first round and then try not to look too "mechanical" as I raise or lower my bet based on the count. Lots of luck to you!

Re: Single-Deck Spread
Posted by phantom007 on 16-May-2003 01:58:02 (#4126)

In SD, no spread at all is needed when both rules and penetration are excellent. A good CC can theoretically get +EV via Ins. and Play decisions only.

The above sure felt good when I typed it in. What I usually do in SD is as follows:

(1) PLAYING ONE HAND ONLY...bet 2 Units "off the top", then dropping to 1U when the Count goes neg., and increasing to 4U when "appropriately" pos. For cover, often, BUT NOT ALWAYS, make a 3U bet in MARGINALLY pos. counts. And likewise, often after a win, will leave a 2U bet ride in a MARGINALLY neg. count.

------Advantage...generally accepted, generally "ploppyish", no 12+:1 swings to garnish attention, appears to be both semi-progressive and semi-martingale, based on prior hand results. Creates an ave. 4:1 spread...OK, I mean an ave. 3.72586777 spread, but you get my drift.

------DisAdvantage...once you are good at CC'ing, SD is EASY! Gets kind of boring, esp. in Neg. swings of the B/R. Also, in SD, a -6 TC after the first deal, may often be +7 after the second round...do not get greedy and "over-ramp"!

(2) PLAYING TWO HANDS...off the top bet two hands of 2U each. Raise to 2x4 at appropriately + Counts, and dropping to 1x1 in Neg. Counts. As above, Advantages and DisAdvantages similar...works best when "Mid-Shoe" entry is allowed...when not, carefully "over-ramp/under-ramp" bets as allowed, as determined by the ambient air temperature.

This "System" creates an ave. 8:1, I mean 7.74363299 Spread.

I hope this has been helpful. Certainly, there are much better systems for the WONGER's (IMHO, WATCHER's), but if YOU WANT TO PLAY BJ, this works pretty well, as long as you move alot.

ph7.

Re: Single-Deck Spread
Posted by Coug It on 19-May-2003 00:37:55 (#4133)

Thanks for the insight everyone. Game was as I had been warned. Tables FULL of ploppies and only two rounds dealt between shuffles (regardless of how many players hands).

NO chance at heads-up play. Was able to spread at will w/ no heat, as a select group of heat-absorbing ploppies were betting $500/hand EVERY hand (watched a few of them taking a severe beating). Downside was poor rules w/ low # hands per hour. It was a fun couple of days. Ended up a paltry 3 units ahead.

Re: Single-Deck Spread
Posted by Steve Langely on 21-May-2003 15:31:55 (#4147)

If you're going to try to get a 1:10 spread in single deck, you should bring along two color 5X5 photos of yourself. Both frontal views, one in a baseball cap and sunglasses. You can just hand them to the casino shift manager when you get the tap. I don't think thay'd yank you off the stool.

texas shootout
Posted by stevedicey on 14-May-2003 13:12:12 (#4114)

there is a new game that is a cross between BJ and texas hold em. its a six deck shoe. you get four cards you keep the best two and play with five community cards you are playin. to get the best five card hand. you are playing against the dealer with only one bet. it has a side bet like lucky ladies..does anybody know hot to count it or figure out when the side bet is in the players faver. any help would be appreciated. regards stevedicey.

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